Paymentsense

Jamie on the Superseller trip to Monaco

Having been a café owner, a shop owner and a sales rep in the hospitality sector, Jamie had the right background for a role as one of our Payments Consultants. And, after four years, he’s now a regular among our top ten Supersellers. We asked him about his experience with Paymentsense and his approach to his work.

How did you start with Paymentsense?

I’d been looking around for something new, but a lot of sales jobs weren’t well paid. You got a basic wage, and the bonus packages weren’t great. So, when I saw the Paymentsense sales job advert, I thought I’d give it a try. 

I didn’t have any expectations, but I’d been self-employed for four years previously and enjoyed it, so that stood out for me. Anyway, they called me back in an hour, and I was on the course two weeks later. 

What did you think of the training?

It was very intense, but it clicked with me early on. There was no problem with the tech end of it, and I got my head around the rates pretty quickly.

How was your first day?

I got out there quickly, which really helped. I started the day after the course finished and I had two sales in on that day. After the first two, I got the hang of it fairly quickly. 

I wasn’t afraid of cold calling. I’d been through that before, and my commission was paid within a few days so I saw straight away that I could make money. 

I guess it helps when you have experience of the work

Yes, as a concession manager before, I’d seen guys come in and they mightn’t do anything for three or four weeks. If you wait that long, it gets very hard to remember what you’re doing or to get any consistency. So, it was good that I got out there quickly.

How do you get your customers?

Back when I started out, four and a half years ago, there weren’t too many players in the Irish market, so people were open to changing – and there were big savings back then too.  I decided to concentrate on Connect and the whole integration side of things. That’s all I do now. With Connect, you’re selling something completely different, so rates and savings don’t come into it until near the end of the sale. And, by then, you’ve either done it or lost it. No other companies are competitive to us in this area, and about 80% of customers are still not integrated at all, so that’s my main thing. 

Are people generally happy about the integration?

Yes, especially now with COVID. Anyone that wasn’t interested in it before certainly is now because nobody wants to touch the terminal. And it’s also safer for staff.

What tips have you got that have improved your performance?

“For me, the less said, the better. I let the customers speak – let them get all their pain points out. Don’t tell them what they want; let them tell you what they want. That’s my biggest thing. A lot of times, if you’re not careful, you can talk yourself out of a sale.”

What’s your initial approach?

I’m not big on pitches. I don’t have the same kind of pitch for everybody. When I first go in, I’m more about being friendly and getting a bit of conversation going. 

How do you keep your confidence up?

You just need patience. It’s possible to have three really great weeks and then hit a slump for a fortnight. So, I keep telling myself: ‘Give it time, give it time.’ And then it comes back around. It’s a mad cycle. 

If you get too stressed or anxious about a sale, you can subconsciously become too pushy. So, I try and stay relaxed.

Talking about relaxing, how do you find the lifestyle with this job?

I enjoy it, though I find the work/life balance hard because I feel like I’m always on. So, I try to take a bit of time away from it now and then.

You’ve also been on some of the trips.

Yes, Malaga was the first one and, since then, I’ve been to Vegas, Monaco, Barcelona and then Rio back in February. They’re great, and they’re a real incentive. But, for me, it’s more about getting into the top ten. 

What advice would you give somebody starting out as a Payments Consultant?

The big thing is to work as hard as you can, at least for the first three months. Work hard, be patient, and it will come. The more people you can speak to, the more chance you have of getting a sale.

Packy Lee in Peaky Blinders

Peaky Blinders actor Packy Lee is a passionate man who speaks with real conviction about his work and life. In this first of our two interviews, he explains how he came to work with Paymentsense and the rewards it’s brought him. In Part 2, later on, he’ll outline the specific techniques that have brought him so much success as a Payments Consultant.

Part 1: How I started

I’ve been with Paymentsense for over five years

It’s been an absolutely amazing journey. Many people would say the same thing but, for me, being able to get out and do a job while still holding on to my dream of being an actor was a lifesaver.

I used to work for telecom companies, such as O2 and Vodafone and, no disrespect to them, but it was just a job. It wasn’t an opportunity. No matter how many times I came in early or went home late or, how many sales I did, there was a ceiling on my earnings.

I was one of their top guys and yet the wage was £1,500 a month – including bonus and everything. But I had a dream and, believe me, it didn’t work at £1,500 a month, especially when doing 46 hours weeks with no time off to attend auditions. 

But then I met this lady called Bridghidin 

For six months, she pestered me to do this, explaining all about the flexibility and the payment structure. Basically, though, it sounded like what everyone else had promised, but with roses on it. And I didn’t believe it.

However, after six months, I caved. There was a training session in Belfast so I thought I’d give it a go, if only to put Bridghidin’s mind at ease. 

After the second day of training, that all changed. I remember thinking, ‘This is me. This is a different level and it’s going to suit me down to the ground.’ That’s when I met Adam, one of the top sellers – I made up my mind that I wanted to be at his level.

I was a bit frightened about selling face-to-face

It was not something I was used to. My number one fear was being told to go away, which can be heart-wrenching for anyone’s confidence. But I also fretted that I might do the job, get the sale and then not do the correct figures, because I’m learning. And then there was the anxiety about getting there on time.

But all those fears disappeared with the first sale.

In fact, I actually made that first sale the same day we finished training. That was the Friday which was when you do the test. But we finished early on Thursday, so they said why wait?They told us to go out and find someone who was willing to meet us and be one of the first people back in with a sale. And that’s what happened. 

So, I finished training on Friday 31st March and that was also the day of my first sale. It’s actually on my sheet because in Mothership you can go right back to your first ever sale –they’ve renewed recently too!

That very first sale gave me the belief that I could do this

Since then, my life has transformed in every way you can think of: financially, mentally, physically. Why do I say this? 

Well, obviously, financially because the sales brought money for my family and for me.

Mentally because the role gave me stability in my head, so I wasn’t worrying where the next acting job was coming from or wondering when my agent would call. And then physically because I could afford to join a gym and pay a personal trainer to get me in shape. We need to look after our bodies.

There aren’t many opportunities like this out there

I mean, I once did a sale for another company and – this is not a word of a lie – by the end of it, I owed them £200. I mean… what? I don’t get it? I go out and do the deal… how did I owe them money?

The first time I got an invoice from Paymentsense, it made me realise there’s a different world out there with owners that do things differently – bolder, more aggressive and more rewarding than other companies.

Getting money in the account within a week as a salesman? Sometimes within three days?  Invoices approved that night? These things were all new to me. I know this work doesn’t suit everybody. I respect that completely. But that’s what makes it so much more exciting for me personally.

A lot of people ask me “Why do you go back to work?”

It’s as if there’s something wrong with me. I mean, yes, I’m in this show called Peaky Blinders and in this other big thing called the Witcher. And, yes, they are very financially rewarding, I get that.

But why would I not go back to work? I’ve built up all these customers and all this residual income and I’ve met so many beautiful, amazing people along the way.

And the money’s good. One thing about Paymentsense is that they don’t hide what they pay people. I know what the other consultants earn and they know what I earn. And £150,000 a year is not bad for what someone once described to me as ‘a tacky sales job.’

I’d love to open a school and teach everyone how to do a ‘tacky sales job’ if it brought these type of rewards. Nobody ever once asked me about education, training, GCSE, A-Levels, college. They didn’t care about it. They wanted to see results and they wanted it done in the right professional manner that I’d been trained for. If you enjoy the work and do it the right way, then you’ll earn more than anyone else.

And, if you’re only in it for money and you’re not in it for the other reasons that I’ve explained – the mental side of it, the physical side of it – and you’re just greedy for money money money... then, yes, that works too. I’m sorry, but it does!

For me, it’s not just a sales job. And we’re not just sales reps. 

I’m now in a position where I can work when I like and do any audition I want to do – and I still have my acting dream alive.

That’s the beautiful thing about it.

Part 2: How I make sales happen

The secret of my success is not really a secret

It’s about constant hard work. You need to be out on the road in the early hours – and that means leaving the house at half-eight as if you’re being paid to be in the office for nine o’clock.

It’s better to see somebody at ten past nine in the morning than ten past ten. It’s only an hour’s difference, but at ten past ten they might be busy and on to something else.

And be early. My opening every time is, “I do apologise. Sorry for being five minutes early.”

It’s also about persistence

If they say no, maybe the next person won’t say no. And if everyone keeps saying no, you need to change your strategy. There was a guy I pitched to – unsuccessfully – three years ago. So, in the middle of lockdown, I decided to call him again. I thought, ‘Why not? I can take another “no.”’ 

Anyway, he came on the line and said, “Thank God you called. I’ve been trying to contact you for ages! I lost your number. Can you help me look at these bills?”

That was in April and now we’re in August and he’s still sending me thank you messages and photographs of his bank statements where he’s written, “Look at the savings.”

We’re not there to sell prospects a product

You learn that in training, right from day one. We’re there to help them save money on a product that they currently have or that they’re going to need. 

My approach is to paint a picture for the customer. In our job, our words are the paint and we use them to explain how much cheaper, how much better and how much more financially stable everything could be for them. You can paint that picture any way you want. As sales people, we have all the colours and it’s up to us to use them.

One thing I never forget

I was taught this from a young age: never lose your character. You may have the knowledge, but you must never lose the buzz. I always need to generate a bit of excitement and energy. 

And I have to keep working at it every day. If I don’t, I don’t stay on platform and don’t get the higher residual. I could be just one sale out, and that sale could cost over a months’ wages. 

But I prefer not to get involved in those small margins, so I keep well ahead of my targets. There’s also that competitive side: I always want to be in the top ten, top twenty in the company. Who doesn’t want to be there?

People ask if my acting skills help

Perhaps, but there are other consultants doing better than me. That’s the thing about payments consultants: they’re all individuals doing their own thing. 

And, yes, I could do more – and the opportunity is there. But what I really like about this job is that I don’t have to explain to four other people that I’m going to be in Manchester for six weeks filming Peaky Blinders. I just make one call to management. 

However, I’ll also tell them that they can still expect docs in. No matter where I film from, I’ll be doing docs in. There’s always a day or two off and I have to go out. It’s like an addiction.

The real skill is in adapting to different people

And that’s about knowledge, not acting. That’s about being streetwise and making use of everything you’ve learnt – from your grannies to your uncles, from your friends to your enemies.

For example, you’ll go in and meet some people and you’ll know right away that they’re on the ball because you can feel this energy around them. So, you’ve got to have more energy than them. If you don’t, then you won’t get their attention. People with high energy only work with people with high energy.

But then two doors down you’ll walk in and speak to Mary who’s as calm as you like. So, now you’ve got to lower your energy so that she isn’t overwhelmed and feels like she’s in control. 

Other times, you might meet someone who’s just opened a takeaway and you’ll have to speak much slower because their first language isn’t English. They want your best deals and they need to be able to trust you, but they can’t if you’re talking at one hundred miles an hour.

I remember telling Bridghidin that I was doing Peaky Blinders

She looked me straight in the face and said, “No matter how big your acting and your shows get, promise me you won’t turn your back on this because if it works for you I want to see it continuing to work.”

So, I made that promise and now, wherever I am in the world, when I come back I’m going straight out the door the next day to sell Paymentsense. 

One time I was working in Budapest, in The Witcher, fighting Superman. It’s a major ambition of mine and I’m doing all these moves with swords that I’ve been trained and drilled on every day for four weeks.

But as soon as the plane landed back home, I didn’t even go back to my family. I got in the car and went straight to my appointment to get my first sale of the day. 

Stuart Doderer

What was your background prior to working with Paymentsense?

I’d been running a small family wholesaling business for years. But, when I turned fifty, I wanted a change. My daughters were a bit older by then so I told them they could take over the running of it. I wanted to go back to my roots as a salesman in my car out on the road. It was something I’d missed.

Was there anything from your previous work that helped you in this particular role?

Yes, having run my own business, and experienced problems like cashflow and staffing issues, I really empathise with small business owners. I’d also done five years of professional management sales training. That’s a lot of courses and I probably only took in a small part of it but there are some golden nuggets you don’t ever forget.

So, yes, I brought a lot with me from my previous job. In fact, it feels like my whole career has been leading up to something like this.

What was your first day like?

When you join up with Paymentsense you don’t realise you know absolutely nothing! I did a week’s training course and thought that was enough. But once you’ve done the work for six months you realise how little you knew. Even now, over three years later, I know more than most, and I’m quite successful... but I’m still learning.

It’s so fast-moving and there are so many technicalities. A lot of people say, “Why don’t they teach this on the training course?” But if they taught everything, you’d never get out of the room and everyone’s heads would explode.

So, you learn on the job.

You have to because there’s so much to it. You can’t prepare people for how it will feel or what they need to know because you’d scare them to death.

I was on LinkedIn the other night and this guy who’s joining messaged me saying, “Got any tips?” I told him ‘There’s a fantastic learning academy and a wealth of resources, but the best advice is to fake it until you make it, keep learning, work really hard, and absorb yourself into it.’

I also said, ‘You’re going to get down sometimes and you’re going to feel the pressure but if you stick at it, one day it becomes a career. After all, if it was easy everyone would be doing it.’

“You’re going to get down sometimes and you’re going to feel the pressure but if you stick at it, one day it becomes a career. After all, if it was easy everyone would be doing it.”

As a new seller, you really can fake it till you make it. Just pretend you’re financially independent and don’t need the sale. If you can truly believe that then it takes all the pressure off. But if you really need the money, that desperation comes out in your voice. It’s like people can smell it.

Of course, if you can’t be confident, just own up and say, “Look, I’m new to the job, it’s my first week and I’ve done my training course, but I’m quite nervous. I don’t want to be pushy, but... I really need to get some deals over the line.” 

People love that. They’ll say “Oh no, sit down, have a cup of tea.” I learnt that technique years ago. Even when you’re really experienced, sometimes it’s good to be humble and just pretend you know nothing and people will help you out. 

What’s the biggest lesson you’ve learnt?

I used to talk too much. I got over it by asking more questions. Previously, I used to say, “Hi, it’s Stuart from Paymentsense. Shall I tell you a bit about the company?”  Nowadays, my opening question is “How can I help?” Then, once they start talking, I keep prodding them with more options. 

When you get a lead, you can be sure that person wants to buy off Paymentsense. So, the only person who can stop the sale happening is you – either because you oversell it, or you keep telling the customer what they need rather than listening to what they need.

Nobody wants to hear product knowledge. Obviously, you’ve got to know your stuff, but using it will bore people to death. All they really want to know is ‘How quickly do I get my money?’

‘How much does it cost?’ And ‘Does it work?’

But how do you consolidate all that learning? How do you turn it into a resource that you can use? Do you write it down? Or take notes? Or is it all purely instinctive?

I would say I’m an instinctive seller. When I don’t get a sale, it hurts. So I review it in my head. If it’s a technical issue then it’s not really my fault. But if a prospect specifically says, “I’ve chosen another company,” then it’s probably something I’ve not done. 

I’m a person who learns through touchy-feely. I have to live it to understand it – I can’t read it on a page. You can learn how to set up a terminal in a book, but success in sales comes from the gut. It’s about your whole attitude, your outlook, your persona, your tonality, the whole way you present yourself. And that comes with time.

How do you manage your confidence levels? Are you a confident person? You sound like it.

Obviously, I ooze confidence (laughs).

I am but I’m not. I’ve learned to be confident. When you’re young you’re full of insecurities. You walk in somewhere and you’re worried about how you look, how you sound, what you think. But these days my mantra is, ‘It’s not my business what other people think of me.’ They’ll make their own mind up, so I just go out and have fun. That helps. 

Confidence comes from experience. I know I can do this, I’m very good at it and I can help people. Also, I’ve also got lots of TrustPilot reviews.

Being confident is all part of the experience for the customer. It’s part of building trust and credibility because there are lots of people selling things, lots of people doing card machines and the customer’s heard it all before. 

When I meet them, I understand why they might be a bit wary initially. There’s nothing’s worse than some guy coming in and gabbling on about something that doesn’t relate to them. They don’t have time for it. 

But If you walk in with the right approach, show empathy, listen and then respond with something they can relate to, they’ll think ‘Oh, that’s interesting. Yes, this guy gets it. He looks like someone who can help me.’ That’s when the game changes and you can have a peer to peer conversation and start actually doing business. 

They then hook into that or they’ll throw you out some hooks by saying, “This card machine doesn’t connect properly,” or “I can’t take payments over the phone.” And if you’re listening for those hooks, you can recycle them back to the customer. That then reinforces the trust.

A lot of people find cold calling tough

I love it – just knocking on doors and talking to people. It’s amazing the business you can get and the things you find out. But, it’s not for everyone. The most successful seller in our business says he hates cold calling and does everything through referral partners, which is great.

But I’m in this job because I saw a massive potential customer base that was ripe for cold calling. You can literally go everywhere and start talking to people and making friends – every time you go down the high street. They won’t always want what you’re offering but they probably know someone who does. 

As one of our top sellers, what do you think it takes to join the elite?

It’s all about relationships and the trust you build up over the years. People love it when they can trust you because it’s hard to find people who are good at things and consistently deliver. It’s like with tradesmen. They’ll do the first job quite well, but on the second job, they leave a load of dust around. So, when you need more work doing you find someone else.

 When you do what you say you’ll do for people over and over, it builds credibility and confidence and they’ll come back to you forever. So, when I work with my partners, if I’ve promised them anything, I always make sure I do the full job. There’s a lot to understand about working with Paymentsense and if you don’t explain it fully, it could come back and bite you.

For example, if they don’t do their PCI compliance, they’re going to get harassed and they’ll say, “What’s this? you never told me about this.” Or if you don’t tell them the full package they’re on or how to get their statements.

“Relationships are built on respect and confidence. So, by doing a complete, well-rounded job and delivering consistently every time you’ll keep credibility, people will love you and refer you to their friends with confidence.”

Relationships are built on respect and confidence. So, by doing a complete, well-rounded job and delivering consistently every time you’ll keep credibility, people will love you and refer you to their friends with confidence. 

My customers know that if they hand me a referral that I’ll look after them. They don’t need to worry about their reputation in the business. And that’s been the difference for me.

Can you provide an example of a sale that went especially well?

One contact of mine always said that if we do well he’d refer me to a really big account. Then one day, they introduced me to this chap who owned nine restaurants along the front of St Ives. We got on well and gradually did the nine restaurants and then he said he had a business partner in another business and he owns the other half of Cornwall.

So, anyway, I got a call from this other chap and we did his restaurants and then they called me the other day and they said they were involved in this other business and that if I did a good job they’d introduce me to them.

It took me two and a half years to get to the point where I got referred like that. And these guys don’t recommend you lightly. They worked with their bank and didn’t want to change, but they could see that one of their guys used me and was saving money – though it wasn’t just about money, it’s also about credibility.

It’s a 24/7 job

Customers call me sometimes on Saturdays or Sundays and they’re surprised when I pick up. Being available like that doesn’t mean I’m at work 24/7. It just means I can work flexibly. But I’m always available. I always give my mobile number; even customers I’ve known two or three years will ring and say, “Oh, you’re still with Paymentsense. Brilliant!”

Summary

Success in sales is basically about educating yourself constantly to refine your technique. Then there’s the application – actually getting up in the morning and doing the work. Plus, you need the ability. Those three things: the technique, the activity and the ability will create success. We’re in a tough market but we’re the best in that market – head and shoulders above the competition.

Elena Tsikkini

Elena joined Paymentsense in April 2019 as a part-time consultant

Elena, what was your background before working as a Payments Consultant with Paymentsense?

I used to run a fish and chip takeaway with my husband. Funnily enough, we were customers of Paymentsense. But I’d done it for years and I wanted something different.

I’d always been good with sales. People joked that I could sell anything to anyone. So, I thought why not give sales a go? I did some research and found out that Paymentsense was taking on new consultants, so I just went for it really. But I never thought I would get where I am now.

Did you face any challenges when you started out?

Time management was a problem at first – between running my own takeaway and doing this because I was part-time at first. But once I saw the results of working with Paymentsense, and then introduced my husband to it, we decided to sell our business and go full-time.

You obviously really took to it

Yes, I started in April 2019 and in the space of two months, I got an invite to the Champions League Conference. I remember people there saying, “I can’t believe you’re here; I worked for so long before I got an invite.”

I obviously showed my potential in the early days. I remember telling Steve Cummings and my RSM, David Lemon that I was still only part-time and that once I started full-time they’d really see a difference. So, in March this year, we sold our takeaway business and since then we’ve gone full-time. 

What tactics have helped you become a really good consultant?

At the beginning, all I would think about was “How can I sell this to the customer?” Then I realised that it’s not so much about the sales pitch. It’s more about just relating to the individual customer. Because not every customer wants the same outcome. 

You have to give them that space

That’s right. It’s a bonus when you can save them money, but I realised it’s not all about that. Sometimes it’s purely yourself that you’re selling – that initial first impression they get of you.

So, I stopped just going in and saying “Would you like to save money on your card payments?” They probably get loads of calls like that every day. Instead I’d just start a general chat and take my time over it.”

And that’s what made the difference

That helped me massively. I would go in, introduce myself, ask how the business is, have a friendly chat… and then eventually I’d ask if they take card payments. How do they find it?How’s their current provider?

In fact, sometimes I might just be a customer in the shop browsing items that I’m interested in and then they’ll approach me to ask if there’s anything they can help me with. And then we’ll get talking and I’ll say, “Oh, you take card payments. That’s actually what I do.”

What difference has working with Paymentsense made to your life, compared with what you were doing before?

A massive difference. My only regret is not doing this sooner. It’s not like when you’re running your own business and you can’t go away one weekend because the staff can’t come in and you’re constantly sorting out rotas.

You can work your own hours. You can travel to different places. You’re not tied down to one place or one area. Sometimes my husband and I might go to, say, Manchester for the day and while we’re out shopping, or having a nice meal, we’ll ask who they use for card payments. We find ourselves working without realising it.

So, you’ve got a much better lifestyle 

Yes it’s so different… and then there’s the income. I’m probably making an average of £30k LTR a month in deals. My best was £52k, which was only a couple of months ago. It’s just crazy what you can earn, especially once you start getting residuals and all that extra income comes through almost without even trying.

That must feel really good bearing in mind where you were before when you were tied to the shop.

Anyone who puts full-time working hours into Paymentsense could get about four times their earnings. It’s crazy. I always say, whatever you put in you see the outcome. Whereas on a normal job you can work as hard as you want and not get any more benefit. 

What hours do you tend to put in a week? 

I don’t really work standard office hours, but I don’t give myself Saturday and Sunday off either. I will happily answer my phone on Sunday at 8pm or Monday morning at 7am if I need to.  Perhaps I should learn to take time out. But I’m happy to work around the clock because any one of those calls could lead to maybe three or four shops signing up.

I guess it’s difficult to turn down a call if it could lead to something big

Yes, especially once you start seeing the results. Every day I give myself a little target that I want to hit. Sometimes I hit it, sometimes I don’t, but it’s about having that goal.

What was your first target when you started out?

At first, I reached out to all the people that I knew, mainly family or friends that had their own businesses. But I’ve found that dealing with people you know is actually more difficult than dealing with strangers because relatives or friends expect a lot more from you – not that I don’t work hard for them.

Anyway, once I got my first five customers, I was set. My first sign-up was actually my parents fish and chip shop. Since then, from my dad alone, I’ve had about 20 referrals because he’s been in the industry since he was 19 years old. He knows so many people from takeaways, restaurants and bars – not just in Doncaster where we’re both from, but from Nottingham, Scunthorpe, Manchester and everywhere.

The referrals really helped

Once you start getting referrals that’s a game-changer. Word of mouth goes much further than cold calling. But overall it took me a good year to get to that stage where now, literally, every day I get a phone call, a message or an email saying “Hi, so and so said to get in touch with you.”

In fact, because of my earnings from Paymentsense, I’ve gone from renting to buying a house. I’ve just been given the keys.